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April 26, 2005

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reprogirl

I just can't believe someone said that. To your face. At work. Sometimes people are just such a waste of oxygen.

Is this person a mother? Did she take maternity leave, or any leave for pregnancy disability? By her logic that wasn't "medically necessary," because, after all, it was the result of her choice.

zarqa

I could use some liposuction on my midsection. I'd look better in a bathing suit. And I'd also be putting less strain on my heart. So which is it, choice or necessity? Eventually the question becomes meaningless.

MsPrufrock

Ah yes, but the poor man who needed a triple bypass did not put himself in that position. He smoked, ate fatty foods, drank heavily...but no one ever told him these things would be detrimental to his health! Therefore, it's not his fault, and hence it is just a necessity of life when he needs surgery.

This issue comes up all the time, doesn't it? People who are infertile due to circumstances beyond their control are selfish and grouped in with those with superficial concerns, ie plastic surgery. As Reprogirl stated, what about maternity leave? Apparently trying to have a child is akin to plastic surgery, but actually succeeding is a medical neccessity? Ugh.

Anna

Hi, really great analysis... wish I had the answer but I don't. I wonder if I had asked myself this question 5 years ago, pre-infertility, what my answer would have been. I'm not sure I would have understood the issue. It is so hard to put yourself in anyone elses shoes unless you've been there... so many of my friends just don't "get it" and I think they probably think the same thing about IVF...it's a choice, we could, after all, "just adopt." But I know they don't mean it to be mean... they just don't get it... and I have a hard time talking to them about it.
I just had a conversation with a friend & said J & I are considering IVF, she said, "what is that, a new drug." And she's really kinda smart.... I was blown away and totally envious of her ignorance.

Jessica

I agree with reprogirl--if medical leave is already considered appropriate for those who choose to have children. Infertile people simply need theirs starting a little earlier.

Does this person also begrudge women maternity leave? Since they could have chosen never to have children? If not, well, they get some leave for making the choice that they will have children, and so should you.

Jessica

Left that "if" dangling up there--poor thing

InSpring

Did this person have bad cosmetic surgery - are there silicone implants where his/her brain is suppose to be?

Louise

I can't believe the nerve of that person, equating infertility treatments to cosmetic surgery. Actually, yes I can unfortunately. People say assinine things all the time. Sorry you have to deal with someone like that.

InSpring

One more thought - do these people know that infertility is a recognized disability and that you could actually go out on disability for this reason while the same does not hold true of cosmetic surgery?

JJ

Something else to mull over, in Canada (Ontario at least)infertility treatments are not covered. Why? Because being infertile doesn't effect "quality of life."

Riiiight.

Anna H.

Ugh. That's just a crappy thing to have to hear -- and like Reprogirl said, at work of all places.

You should tell your co-worker that when you go in for your IVF, not only will you be having a baby *implanted*, but you're also getting a little lipo, a tummy tuck, a butt lift and some big old fake boobs while you're under. Because it's the same thing, right?

Sorry you have to put up with such assholes, Mare. Does your job pay for a mental health leave to recover from dealing with pricks? Because you deserve one of those, my friend.

xxoo

Emily

What a fucking idiot. I like how you daintly used the word vexed whereas I would have bitch slapped them into yesterday. Yeah, I'm loving the 'choices' I have in front of me every fucking day. They're such great 'choices' that everyone wants to be me right?

Riiiiight.

Dead Bug

Ah, but IVF *is* like cosmetic surgery: like, for example, cosmetic breast reconstruction surgery after a radical mastectomy. Both procedures are there to fill a painful, gaping emptiness, no?

We did not choose to be infertile; infertility chose us. I didn't wake up one morning at age forty-six and say, gee, I'm in menopause but, dammit, I deserve a child! Brew me up one, Doc!

We are broken, we need to be fixed, no different from a fractured ankle or a harelip.

The man with the triple bypass? He chose to put himself at risk. Would I deny him the right to treatment? Hell, no. Unless he also wants to deny you a leave-of-absence for IVF treatment.

--Bugs

Bente

I think that IVF could be in a new category, why does it have to be compared to the extreme of heart surgery, or the unextreme(sorry, I'm tired) of cosmetic surgery? I don't know alot about IVF procedures, just what I've read, but I would have to say you'd odviously need a fair amount of time off for it.

Meg

This is really weird to see this in your post. I heard the same thing said on talkback radio in Australia yesterday. I was blown away by the nastiness of it. It looks like the government is going to limit IVF subsidising and cut women off at 42. For the last few years it has been unlimited and although expensive still affordable ( about $3000. as oposed to $8000 a cycle.)This person conveniently forgot that IVF people also pay taxes.
I can't imagine how you coped having someone say it to your face, you are a very strong person. These days I'm either close to tears or ready to rip someone's head off, when I hear hurtful comments. May I borrow some of your arguments?

-Blue

Ugh! Aaaghh ... no words to say.

I can only hope that this arsewipe was at least thinking of the sort of cosmetic surgery that Bugs mentioned (breast recon after mastectomy) ...

Nope. That still doesn't make it any less idiotic a thought. Sorry, thought I had a scrap of reason there.

What fucking morons you encounter, Mare. I'm so sorry.

-Blue

Alicia

She's an idiot. Get used to it, because once you do have your child you'll have to put up with the same assinine attitude. "Hey, you CHOSE to have a child, don't expect a decent maternity leave," etc. This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately. Parenthood is not a privilege and society shouldn't see it that way. The freakin' species would die out if people didn't "choose" to have children. People who want to raise children have the right to do so, however they manage to get there. And they should be celebrated for doing so.

Kay

Infertility treatments are not like cosmetic surgery. Perhaps they are like reconstructive surgery.

Certainly, a person can live a healty life with a deformed face after a terrible accident or even after being born with a congenital anomaly. But generally, we recognize the mental pain associated with, for example, a cleft lip. This condition might make feeding a little more difficult, but certainly it isn't life threatening. But of course we want children to undergo reconstructive surgery to correct this!

I've heard people argue that organ transplantation uses too many resources per person, and that it should not be done. But I bet if they had polycystic kidneys and needed a transplant to survive, they wouldn't be arguing about cost.

Amyesq

Does this person have children? Did you ask her how she would feel if she never had them? What did you say, Mare?

I can't believe the incredible ignorance.

patricia

Just another blatant show of cluelessness.

Here is one part I agree with with: IVF is a choice, not a necessity, even if we get the shitty end of the infertility stick. However, as you point out, having children in general is a choice as well. And this choice is usually followed by a "traditional" pregnancy. What this idiot should really be comparing is cosmetic surgery to pregnancy in general. After all, the woman chose to get knocked up, and is therefore choosing to go through labor, have a baby, and need maternity leave.

This has always irked me. The "Well, it's not a necessity, it's a choice" argument. Because anyone who goes through infertility treatments is making the EXACT same choice as everyone else who "chooses" to get pregnant. They've chosen to have a (larger) family.

I used to make the argument - based on your moronic co-workers point, that only those who "accidentally" got pregnant should have their pregnancies covered. Everybody else brought it upon themselves and therefore do not deserve any special consideration.

penelope

Having worked for a plastic surgeon in a country where looks REALLY matter I would have to say that cosmetic surgery is also very complicated. What about the guy with a birthmark over half of his face, or the person without a real jaw or the relatively heavy woman who couldn't hold down a job in the fashion industry - when I interacted with these people they had very few choices within the society in which they lived. Their surgeries were painful and expensive but REALLY mattered to their quality of life.

So does IVF for many of us - a choice we actually wish we didn't have to make - none of those plastic surgery patients were ecstatic about their choices but rather resigned and miserable.

My brother chose not to have children, his spouse chose otherwise. Did he have a choice to become a father when that was all she wanted? Even for the fertiles it gets complicated.

AmyW

Well, you know, I chose to undergo my current IVF cycle just because I really enjoy the Lupron-induced, insomnia-causing night sweats and embarrassing, dripping-wet hot flashes I have been experiencing for the past few days. Really.

Pamplemousse

Fuckwits!! Kill 'em.

Sorry, I am a tad pissed off at my elective IVF going south faster than Paris Hilton's knickers.

Heidi

I have often thought about the difference between a right and a privilege. Which category does having children fall under? The government/law seems to support that it is a "right". (examples: no one can be denied the right to have kids, leave for infertility treatment is covered under family medical leave act, the Supreme Court ruled that having children is considered a "major life activity" which means being infertile falls under the "Americans with Disabilities Act"...). But isn't it convenient that most insurance companies consider it a "privilege"? That way they don't have to cover it. I love how my insurance company will pay for diagnostic tests for infertility, but not treatment. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Atlantic

What an idiot. The difference seems pretty clear to me: cosmetic surgery (as it seems to have been meant here, not reconstructive surgery to correct disfigurement) is 'fixing' something that *isn't broken*.

moogielou

Great post, Mare.

erin

Seriously, GREAT post. Are you a logic professor?

Susan

Great response to a stupid way of thinking. When I called my company's HR department to inquire how to appeal the administration "no coverage for IVF" attitude I was told the same thing! Elective like breast augmentation my ass! I didn't choose IF but I DO choose medical intervention to fix it.
Of course, our administration is all men, middle-aged men who are more worried about viagra coverage.

Tiffanni

I am not sure WHY it is, but it's just another prime example of people who know nothing about infertility, have not dealt with infertility, talking out of their asses. I think people who haven't been through it need to shut their damn pie holes.

ManhattanAnne

There's a fabulous cartoon in the New Yorker this month: an older gentleman and a younger woman are together at the pharmacy counter. The guy says, "I need the night-before pill and she needs the morning-after one." Such a great sarcastic comment on the essential parity between men's and women's needs in the area of reproductive health, given that Viagra is ften covered by insurance while birth control isn't. It seems to me, as you so rightly point out with your smoker's heart bypass example, that when it comes to matters reproductve, men's needs are couched in terms of medical health, while women's needs are discussed in terms of lifestyle "choice." As Grrl would say, how very boring.

Julie

Realllllly smart post.

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