Since you asked

It seems the view is quite good from up here on the soapbox. Having gone through all the trouble of making the ascent, I hope you'll bear with me if I stay a short while longer and answer/clarify some of the points and questions from the comments on my last post.

BJ asked (hi, BJ!) what is meant by "treatment" in the UK in terms of all this assessment malarkey. What constitutes treatment under the legislation has actually been the subject of some complex legal discussions in the highest courts in the land. But the short answer is that for the purposes of the Act, we're talking about HFEA- licensed treatment, which includes anything involving mixing sperm and eggss outside the body, or anything involving any donor material.

BJ also asked whether the law/Code of Practice means that lesbians are unable to get treatment here in the UK. The answer is that, strictly speaking, by law no category of woman is specifically excluded from treatment. So in principle a single woman, older woman or lesbian couple can be treated. My understanding is that at least half the licensed clinics in the UK do offer treatment to single women or lesbian couples, with a few clinics operating on a definite "yes" policy of such treatment.

However, before the treatment can commence, the welfare of the child assessment has to take place, as it would for any other couple. If in the terms of the legislation, the child will have "no legal father", then according to the current HFEA Code of Practice the treatment centre is expected to "assess the prospective mother's ability to meet the child's needs and the ability of other persons in the family or social circle willing to share responsibility for those needs." Whatever that means!

Whether in practice single women or lesbian couples are actually assessed more stringently is not something I can answer, since I don't personally know anyone in the UK who has experienced this. Like I say, even for heterosexual couples, the extent of the assessment can really vary from clinic to clinic, depending on how they apply the Code.

To be fair, the current view emanating from HFEA is that the welfare of the child test should at least be amended in its anachronistic reference to the need for a father, so as to be less discriminatory to single women and lesbians. Things have changed in some ways in this country since the dawn of the Human Rights Act, and while I'm not aware that anyone has ever raised a legal challenge on that basis, I would have thought there was a good chance that eventually, someone will- if things stay as they are.

BJ's wonderfully inquiring mind also wondered what was the deal for unmarried couples, like myself and E, and whether that affected our treatment options. Again, the answer is that we have to be assessed like anyone else, and there may be some clinics with particular policies on treating unmarried couples. At our clinic, our unmarried status does not in and of itself make any difference. There are some peculiar legal quirks here in Scotland about parental rights for unmarried fathers. And the Code of Practice recommends that clinics explain that legal position to unmarried couples before commencing treatment. I'm not particularly worried about any of that. Things could get very legally messy at other points in the treatment process, but that would apply to everyone, even married couples.

Estel commented (hi, Estel!) that her government is taking a leaf out of the UK's book with introducing more checks prior to commencement of fertility treatment. To that I would say, whoa, Nellie! To look to the UK for inspiration seems like a misinterpretation of the way the wind is blowing here.

In fact, very recently, a report was published by the Parliamentary Committee on Science and Technology, inquiring into a number of issues, including the ethical framework for legislation and reproductive technologies. It's long, but it makes for extremely interesting reading. The upshot is that one of the things the Committee are recommending is abolition of the welfare of the child principle in its current form, on the basis that "it discriminates against the infertile and some sections of society, is impossible to implement and is of questionable practical value in protecting the interests of children born as a result of assisted reproduction".

The Committee is also quite openly critical of HFEA in more ways than one, so it is quite heartening to see that common sense has not completely vanished from government.

Whether it will actually make a difference is something we will have to wait and see. I'm not naive, but I do hope so. I really do, especially since there is every sign that infertility is on the rise in Europe, and more and more people are going to be affected. Not to mention that evidence indicates that it is male infertility that is on the increase. Which sort of makes me go "hmmmm."

But certainly if things get any worse, I am joining LEB (hi, LEB!) in the hills, stockpiling assault weapons, like water-pistols.

OK, I am done. Next time, something more prosaic, I promise.

Comments

[Nicole]

I find that quite interesting.

So if no medical assistance was needed to conceive, you woudn't have to consider the welfare of the child principle.

Interesting, isn't it?

[estel]

Mare,

Nothing like the odd soap box for a bit of rave now and then. Anyway, its been fun to have some time to share the view! I'd recently finished my submission on what a bad idea it was when I read your post and decided to rave on a bit more.

Just in relation to your points: The review committee here has been pointed to the UK report by among others the Australian resolve group. So they don't have any excuses for not knowing which the wind is blowing. Hasn't deterred the buggers a bit though. (Please don't think I'm by any means cheering these guys on.) The whole point of the review initially, was to remove discrimatary bits of current IVF legistlation for singles/lesbians. So they ditched that and came back with this lovely assessment proposal instead (and I do wonder if its not a back door way of stopping the former).

Cheers,
estel

[Jill]

Hi, Mare,

I just wanted to say "hi" and thanks for linking my blog.

I am enjoying your blog and look forward to reading more of it. I found what you said on your soap box to be quite interesting.

Best wishes on the baby front!

Jill

[M]

Hi...Bit new to all this so not sure if this is the right place to make my comments....Sitting comfortably? then I'll begin...My husband & I underwent an unsuccessful, very expensive IVF procedure in Sept 2003. We do however have two frozen fertilised embryos...having been told this was too few for a thaw and replacement cycle,we had planned to undergo another IVF cycle once we were over the trauma about the failure (and could afford it). (which was hopefully going to increase the number of embryos so that the frozen ones could be used) Long story short, my husband left me earlier this year, prior to another treatment. I did get him to sign a hastily hand-written declaration handing over any rights to these embryos and any future use of them, to me...however on phoning the consultant to attempt to make an appointment to discuss developments and my options, I was told by his secretary about these new HFEA forms and that they had to be completed by both parties. Now I have no idea where I stand and what is to become of my embryos...Along with the trauma of an impending divorce, I also have the worry of what will become of my embryos. No-one seems to know where I stand from a legal standpoint...(Not the consultant who referred me for treatment, nor the fertility clinic which is 'looking after' my 'babies'(OK my embryos)for me)I have been told that I would need to pass the details to the 'Essex Commission' to make the legal decision(?) but I am reluctant to do this quite yet in case they say I cannot undergo any further procedures as a single/divorced woman...Also, where would I stand if I wanted to undergo another IVF cycle but using a sperm donor? I'm very distraught about this whole situation and feel that everything is conspiring against me...Does anybody have any ideas? Sorry if this seems a bit 'disjointed' but it is difficult to cover all information in summary....Am writing this from an internet cafe, so cannot always check my mail or this site on a daily basis but I will check as soon as I can and would so appreciate any advice anyone could give me. I hope that I get a reply soon. Thank you...Regards Worried and Desperate.