The tears at the edge of the world

The uncharted waters of "crying it out" is a place that I had hoped we would never have to go. It wasn't so much that I was philosophically opposed to the notion of CIO; I realise that in some cases and for some babies, it does work. But for us?  For Botany?  From what I had encountered during the few abortive attempts to get her to nap on her own in her cot during the day, I was pretty sure she fell into the "tension increaser category". In other words, to paraphrase the wisdom of Moxie, she cranks herself up and will just get progressively more and more upset.

So the realm of CIO, particularly at night, struck me as an avenue fraught with peril; a route I would only venture in absolutely dire necessity. And up until a few nights ago, I was optimistic that it could be avoided altogether. I could carry on with with my Pantley/Makeitupasyou goalong approach.* Sure, she is waking up a lot and the wake ups are getting more frequent, but she would always go back down, eventually, right?  Sure, I am getting tired, but I am coping, right?

Then came the other night. I had to end a telephone call with my mother at 9pm to go nurse an awakened baby back down. She woke up again at 11pm, just as the film was reaching its thrilling denouement. She woke up at 1am, just as I had finally gotten to sleep. Each time, it took a half an hour to resettle her.

When she woke up at 2am, I sent E. down. I turned off the monitor and lay in the dark, crying a few exhausted and exasperated tears of my own. He came back at 2.30am.

Is she asleep, I asked.  Um, not exactly, he said.

I went down at 2.45 am and nursed her back down for another half an hour.

When the monitor kicked off at 3.30 am, I decided enough was enough. I went downstairs, comforted her in the cot, and then left the room. I went next door into the living room, sat on the sofa , vowing to give it ten minutes before I went back in. I think I managed about six before I had to go retrieve a howling, sobbing, hysterical baby. When I picked her up, she wrapped her chubby little arms around me, clinging onto my neck for dear life, her body shaking with hiccups of distress. I took her upstairs with me- she nursed frantically for about ten minutes before falling into a deep sleep, whereupon I was able to gently transfer her into the cradle next to our bed and she didn't wake up for three hours.       

The next day, I felt sort of shaky and unsettled. What had just happened there?  Was I a terrible mother for subjecting my child to that treatment? Or was I total wuss for failing to follow through?  I felt dreadful about it, so I mentally parked thinking about it until bedtime.  She woke up about twenty minutes after going down for the night. I went back in and soothed her down. Half an hour later, she woke again, as we were in the middle of eating dinner. E. went in- whereupon she screamed and cried and wailed nonstop for twenty minutes while he held her and tried to comfort her.

E. finally came out looking a bit frazzled. He asked me if we should put the light on to check if she was OK. No, I said, she's fine. I think she's just pissed off that she's not getting boobed back to sleep. Unfortunately by this point, she was again a hysterical hiccuping mess, and I gave in and did just that.

My baby girl, my darling baby girl.  What am I to do?  I know that sometimes, crying might be the only way forward. And I do believe that some crying could be endured. But my heart quails at this type. This is the type of crying you do while sitting on the floor of the bathroom after the IVF cycle has failed- the kind that takes over your whole body, with sob after sob. How can I bear to hear my baby crying that way?  I don't think I can. But I want her to learn how to soothe herself back to sleep. I don't want to be up every other hour night after night, nursing endlessly. Even knowing it will pass eventutally is not enough to ward off the waves of bleakness that wash over me when I contemplate that prospect.

*Am I just thick, or does anyone else find it rather difficult to work out exactly what the "solution" is in the No-Cry Sleep Solution? Large chunks of the book seem to be devoted to self-congratulatory text about how well "it" works, followed by some common sense suggestions which thus far have gotten us pretty much nowhere, followed by an approach which does, in fact, involve crying.    

Comments

[Heather]

I was never able to decipher the solutions in the Pantley book either. It frustrated me, but I was so sleep-deprived that I thought I was just too dumb to figure it out.

My first sounded very much like Botany. We had been going along fairly well, then he just started to wake up ALL. THE. TIME. and even nursing and rocking stopped working. It got to the point where he would cry in my arms even while nursing. We eventually did the controlled crying (check at 3 mins., then 6 mins., then 9 mins. etc.) And it worked. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. It sucked so much so that I left the house and my husband ended up doing it. Luckily, once we established that pattern for going to bed, we didn't need to do it at all in the middle of the night.

Good luck. I know it is hard to do this to a child that was so sought after and hard won. It is also such a personal decision and no one else's experience is the same as yours.

[Jen]

I'm so sorry, sweetie. Being sleep-deprived is so difficult, and feeling like you're breaking your child's heart on top of it makes it about 10 times worse.

As for Pantley, yeah, I have to agree that there wasn't much of a "solution" there--the only lesson I took away was that it was okay if things didn't improve overnight; it was okay to fashion whatever remedy would allow you to function for the time being. For us, that meant the dreaded bringing him back to our bed for a time until he grew out of that particular phase of night wakefulness, then transitioning him back gradually to his crib.

Best of luck, my friend--I hope things improve on this front soon.

[May]

I wholeheartedly agree with Heather's last paragraph. We eventually let our beloved daughter cry hysterically for a very very long time. It worked, but it was the hardest thing I've ever done. Good luck with whatever you try next,

[VHMPrincess]

I was left wondering the same thing after reading Moxie's post about sleeping - well WHAT DO YOU DO if you have a child that gets more upset by crying? My second son is one of those - 10 MINUTES of crying = throwing up in the crib. Seriously. So what I did was this - I put him in his crib and sat down. I patted his butt. He stood up (he was older than Botany). I laid him down. Repeat. 30 minutes of slight fussing and he fell asleep. He woke up in the middle of the night that first night --> 30 minutes of slight fussing, rather than the TWO HOURS it usually was. The next night was 10 minutes. Then Nothing, it was awesome. But for him, it was essential that I be there in the room. Eventually, we worked our way out of the room.

I just did this trick again for my newer baby - at 9 months. I would HIGHLY recommend sleep training BEFORE they can sit up/stand up in the crib. THEN you are at the advantage because the are already LYING DOWN. I always wait too late - she taught herself to stand in the crib during the first night. But it worked and it only took 2 nights.

Good luck!

[cass]

We read a book by someone called the Sleep Lady whose method seemed more moderate - it involved putting the baby down and staying with them, patting and shushing. Then, gradually, moving further away (e.g. halfway across the room, then to the door, then just outside the door) doing a few nights of each. Of course, in the end we've just gone with the whateverthehellworks approach, which has mostly meant my nursing them or cosleeping them (even now, at 18 months). But I think I wish we'd tried the Sleep Lady plan much earlier - I didn't think we were ready, but ohmigod the lack of sleep is a killer.

So basically, I have no idea, but I feel your pain. And Pantley seems so nice until you're actually trying to figure out what to do right now, and then nada.

[4katnap]

I tried the CIO one time. Then held DD in my arms while she sobbed in her sleep the rest of the night. The good news is rarely do they go off to college needing to be BF to sleep. Seriously though, lack of sleep sucks we ended up co-sleeping then later laying sown with her in her bed till she slept then allowing her to come in if she needed to. she's 9 now and a very good sleeper though a bit of a night owl. Of course her mom and dad are too so not big suprise. Honestly I was always more concerned that she know we were there and she could trust us to be there no matter what to be able to CIO. At 9 she's an awesome, very intellegent, funny, loving, caring young lady who still loves to cuddle! Some nights I do go in her room and lay next to her and chat a while. She's worth ever minute of lost sleep.

[Kirsten]

Have you looked into Ferber (Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems)? I think that the way they go down for the night sort of sets them up for nightwakings later on. I thought I had/had the worst sleeper ever when my daughter was Botany's age. I remember many nights like the ones you describe. And even after getting her to go down on her own, as described in the Ferber book, we still had night wakings, but it was 1 or 2 or 3, not every 40 minutes. My daughter is 3 now and has been sleeping through the night consistently since about 14 months old, but it did take some work and some planning. And no, Pantley, tho I did read her, was not a part of our plan. Another great book (can't remember if you've mentioned it before) is Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Weisbluth. Good luck!

[Veronica]

I could have written this. Word. For. Word.

(((hugs)))

[Kristina]

I can't remember how you feel about co-sleeping. I've been reading your blog for a while now (lurking), but here I am with my first comment because I think maybe you ought to hear my experience and, perhaps, give it a try. I had my first baby, a girl, in November. We decided to co-sleep before she arrived, although I reserved the option to use a crib in case I felt it wasn't safe. I read the books that teach you the rules of safe co-sleeping and we tried it out the first night home. Before I was pregnant, I used to roll all over the place in bed. Now, I am so perfectly still next to my little baby that I am sore in the morning unless I change my sleeping position each time I wake up to nurse. I have even woken up from a deep sleep instantaneously (twice so far) to discover that she has stopped breathing, and then when she resumes, I can go back to sleep. I have not for one second felt it was unsafe (but I still follow the rules). The result has been blissful sleep every night now for nearly three months. She only wakes up to nurse and then she promptly falls back into a deep sleep until the next feeding or until morning. For a while, she could only fall asleep with us next to her, but recently has begun to be able to lay quietly by herself after the last nursing session before 'bed' and she falls asleep comfortably alone and without crying. This is truly remarkable because she is not exactly a calm baby. During the daylight hours, she cried for nearly two months straight, only happy when we held her while moving - walking, swaying, bouncing, etc. and nursing. We wore ourselves out rather than CIO mainly because I just couldn't bear the idea of her being alone and crying with no response. I sincerely hope you consider co-sleeping though I understand it is not for everyone. This is the book I would recommend; I liked that it had scientific research to back it up and not just rhetoric. _Good Nights: The Happy Parents' Guide to the Family Bed (and a Peaceful Night's Sleep!)_ by Maria Goodavage and Jay Gordon

[Carla Hinkle]

I could just never do CIO. I never even gave it a real shot, because I just CANNOT hear my babies cry for any length of time. If I am a wuss, so be it.

What I have done with both (at different ages/stages) is the Baby Whisperer's "Pick Up/Put Down" method. (I know Moxie isn't crazy about the Baby Whisperer but I have always found her a humane, happy medium between structure and no structure.) Baby cries. You pick them up briefly for a pat -- you put them back down in the crib. Lather, rinse, repeat, as many times as necessary (which may be a LOT -- 50, 100, more?). Eventually the baby just gives up and goes to sleep.

With my 2nd daughter I didn't even need to pick her up -- but just be there, as an earlier poster said. She was much, much older by the time I got fed up (1 year), but I basically patted and soothed her in the crib, then sat next to it until she fell asleep. A few times I had to stay an hour in the middle of the night, but really, those were very limited.

Good luck. I will email you the long version of the instructions for "Pick Up/Put Down" in case you decide to try it.

[Lily]

I feel your pain - we had four wake-ups last night, and only nursing will do to get the kid back to sleep. I WISH I'd done sleep training - using ANY method - well before the wee one could stand in the crib and forlornly repeat, "Mama? Mama? Maaaaammamaaaaa???" as if his little heart was breaking.

[Andrea]

Oh, that brings back the memories (horrific, tiring, frustrating, exhausting...you know). I liked the Pantley book in principle, but none of the techniques really worked out for my first child. We eventually had to CIO with her, with some modifications and occasional concessions by me, when the wailing got intolerable. I remember the worst period was around 6 months (when we tried all the sleep training methods in earnest) and things were rough off and on for the first year to 18 months, but now she is 5 1/2 and sleeps all night, willingly, in her own bed.

With the second child, I thought it would be easier to get him to sleep. After all, I'd learned that a schedule and routine was critical, that the kid could be tired even if she/he didn't look that way, and that some fussing/crying before sleep was normal. Hah! He was easier in some ways and harder in others, and I think I spent just as much time nursing in the middle of the night as I did the first go round. My husband tried to do some of the night shifts, but with both kids, only the boobs would do. It was frustrating for us both. That kid is now 3 1/2 and sleeps well, too, so I guess I can offer the assurance that someday Botany will figure it out.

I do agree that you should try to get some kind of sleep routine/training done before the kid can stand up (it's harder to go back to sleep when you're standing at the crib wailing yelling than if you're horizontal and yelling) and definitely before discernible speech.

I liked the Weissbluth book someone mentioned above for a coherent explanation of why naps and early bedtimes and routines are so important. Unfortunately, I think his "how-to's" just boil down to a modified form of CIO also.

[becky]

My son has had OMG sleep issues. Ferber was a good read but I'm pretty sure he says to wait until at least 6 months. We eventually went with him but we did modifications. The most important thing for us to figure out with Charlie was when our presence was a help or a hinderance. There were times that standing there and patting him until he was calm only resulted in an even angrier, more indignant cry when we finally left.

Weisbluth is of the close the door and come back in 12 hours school which I couldn't really get behind.

I have never met anyone for whom No Cry actually worked.

If I were you (and I was) the first step would be to get her to calm without the boob. We did that with Charlie when he was about 6 months old (?- massive sleep deprived haze). We worked on it at all times- before nap, bedtime, random other times of upset. We would hold him, rock him, sing, etc, anything but the boob for some appropriate interval. I think our rule of thumb was at least 2 hours between nursings- since he was still nursing around the clock this still resulted in 11-12 nursings a day so the child wasn't starving by a long shot. The thing to watch is that you need to be sure they aren't teething or in a growth spurt.

I found the baby whisperer method of nursing as soon as they get up rather than nursing down to be very helpful as well. Then I could at least figure out if he was hungry or sleepy.

[Stephanie]

Botany is about the same age as my daughter, and we just recently went through the same thing, waking more often, taking hours to get back down even with a bottle and a cuddle in the rocking chair. One Sunday night she had my DH and I up for close to four hours. She just...wouldn't...sleep.

I'd had enough so I bought a book called Sleeping Through the Night. I was determined to give it one week and see if it worked. My daughter is umm high strung and does not self soothe at all.

The first night it took 90 minutes, the second night 50 minutes, the third night it took 10 minutes, and the fifth night...not a peep. She immediately rolled over, grabbed teddy and went to sleep.

Since then it takes less than five minutes for her to sleep, and her attachment to me is just as strong as ever. She is also in a better mood during the day and has more energy. She still wakes at night but only once and it takes no time at all to put her back down.

CIO is really hard on the parents, I had a mantra that I kept repeating to the baby.

"I know this is hard for you, but you can do it. Sleeping well is a skill, and I need to teach this to you. I'm going to give you the gift of a good nights sleep. Mommy and Daddy are so proud of you!"

I'm so sorry that you aren't getting any sleep and hope you find a solution soon(whatever that solution may be). It is so hard to be the mother you want to be when you are exhausted all the time.

Hope this helps!

[Sassy]

Is there a sleep school near you? We have a great one near us which pretty much saved a friends life. Her little girl would scream for hours. Sleep school first let her get to sleep so she could think again, and then they tried different ways of calming her down until they got a routine that worked and she went home.

I wasn't going to give you my assvice since I obviously don't know shit, but I do know that sleep school can work.

[carosgram]

I was a mother who didn't ever want her baby to cry. I picked up and wore her all the time. My mother said that her feet never touched the ground. It was exhausting and eventually I really understood why people can hurt a crying baby. One night I had to make the decision to put her in the crib and let her cry or 'strangle her'. It was so hard to sit in the next room and listen to her cry but I knew I couldn't cope any more. I watched the clock and set a time of 30 minutes. Thank God she went to sleep at minute 29 and then slept for a good 4 hours straight. It saved my sanity and her life. I hope you find a solution that works for both of you soon. I sympathize with you.

[Anna]

I had this kind of baby the first time around, and am now working with the current version, number two, aged eight months.

I eventually used the Baby Whisperer pick up/put down method that others have described on my oldest (now five). What I can tell you is that her difficulty sleeping did not carry through to later life. She was suggesting bedtime HERSELF by eighteen months, and these days will even sleep in.

Baby number two is, if anything, more difficult sleep-wise than number one was, but I am trying to keep in mind this too shall pass. When they are ready, I find the Baby Whisperer works quite well. When they're not, whether because of teething, growth spurts, or developmental leaps, my opinion is you just do what you can to get through it.

It WILL get better, and someday you may even be able to laugh about it.

[Anne]

CIO is so hard...A few times we had to let our baby cry for up to 45 minutes, and during that time I had to hold my husband's hand--hard--to prevent me from going in there. But it worked, and quite quickly. Now, at 14 months, she goes to bed willingly and sleeps for roughly 12 hours with only a couple "partial wakenings" from which she puts herself back to sleep.

CIO goes against every maternal instinct in my body, but I also know that a sleepy child is a very unhappy child, and that was the thought that got me through the worst of it.

[Amyesq]

It just sounds horrible. Like the above poster says, CIO goes very much against most women's maternal instincts. Your baby is crying, she needs you, you go to her. That's how it is supposed to work.

I would like to think I would be able to get through the first terrible days/weeks of CIO, intact but I never had to try. And I would say I am lucky, but really I am not. My daughters came from the orphanage as amazing sleepers. But only because nobody was ever there to get them when they cried at night.

This is like a knife in the heart. I am not sure what my point is here... but I guess it's that if you decide to do it great, but if you decide it's not best for you, then great too. Either way, good luck!

[swissmiss]

I think if one is already predisposed to a no-cry approach there isn't much in Pantley that hasn't already been tried (though a few of the suggestions for older children are interesting) as a matter of common sense. I didn't get so much out of it either, because we've tried all that already. I find that I get more ideas from books I fundamentally disagree with - the nickname for Weissbluth in our house is "the mean guy," but because he's coming from someplace totally counterintuitive for me I do pick up a few useful hints now and then. I can't go full-blown cry all night, but some of the things like shorter waking periods during the day and wake them up if their afternoon nap gets crazy long have been useful. Basically, try reading some sleep stuff that kind of turns you off - you don't have to take the whole package but you're more likely to stumble upon something you haven't already tried.

[Alex]

Interesting point from swissmiss about reading stuff you disagree with.

I have read basically nothing on this topic and have mostly improvised. What has worked for us probably won't for you, but for whatever it's worth...

We have a short bedtime routine, after which I put DS in his crib, which is in our bedroom, and lie down in ours, usually with a book. If he cries, I read or speak to him; if he plays, I read or speak to him, if he wails, I pick him up. If after being picked up he smushes against me and starts to fall asleep I walk and sing to him for about 5 minutes, after which he is asleep, and put him back in his crib. If he instead looks around or tries to 'talk' to me, I snuggle him briefly and put him back in his crib and start again.

Personally I have not felt comfortable leaving DS alone to cry but do feel OK leaving him in his crib and talking with him. As I say, if he starts wailing as opposed to crying (i.e. if he starts the sort of post-BFN cry your description so aptly captures, wow), I pick him up, but if that doesn't quickly turn into a sleepy baby, back into the crib he goes. And I talk to him but don't hold him.

I realize Botany's crib isn't in your room, but assuming there is a chair in hers you could do the same thing (basically) with her.

The lack of sleep is tremendously, tremendously difficult, and I don't think I had to deal with as much as you have. Good luck to you, and take care of yourself.

[Helen]

I just looked in to see how you are getting on and tought I'd delurk to say sorry you are suffering the sleep demons. I had a quick look through your older posts to see whether you've started weaning Botany yet? Our health visitor tended to nod sagely when the babies started waking in the night again and suggest it as time to start the baby rice, to stop them waking up from hunger at least - tho' of course it doesn't work on the rolling issue! I'm thinking Botany must be getting on for 6 months now, so it might be an idea to try? That said, my little girl (now nearly two) got really bad when the teeth started coming in at 7 months and seemed to nurse non-stop all night for weeks at that point... sigh. We ended up doing CIO at 9 months - she yelled for an hour the first night, half and hour the second, five minutes the third, and now goes to sleep without a peep.
Good luck, and it's not forever, even though it seems like a long dark tunnel.

[Pam]

Ferber's book, Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems, literally saved our lives. Our son was 9 months old, and waking 8-10 times a night. I was so tired, I nearly got in a very serious car accident...nearly drove off the road. We decided enough was enough. We started CIO on a Sunday night, the approach we used was "cold turkey". We bathed him, dressed him in his softest Hanna Andersson jammies, kissed him goodnight after a book, and put him in his crib. And then shut the door. It was a VERY difficult few nights, obviously. Very, very difficult. By Thursday, he was sleeping 12 hours, straight through. He's now 3 years old, and has been a perfect sleeper ever since. I feel like we waited WAY too long to try it, and wish we had done it earlier. If I had only known.

[Anna]

My girl is 12 months and has never slept longer than three hours at a stretch overnight. She ranges between three and seven/eight wake ups a night, mostly going back to sleep fairly quickly, sometimes staying awake for a while.

She seems to have a very restless time from about 3am - this has been the case ever since she was a newborn. I read the No Cry, and it really didn't have much to offer that we weren't already doing, although we do do the 'pull off' the boob thing so she usually doesn't fall asleep nursing. Can't say it has made any difference to her overall sleeping though.

We co-sleep. I could never bear to let her cry and wonder why she was alone. The way it works for us is that she goes down to sleep on her floor futon at about 7, wakes at 9.30/10, fed, back to sleep in her bed then at the next wake up around midnight/1am I get into bed with her and sleep there the rest of the night.

My husband is in charge of putting her to sleep in the evenings and after the 10 o'clock feed. We instigated this early on so that I wouldn't be solely responsible for her sleep. She wailed and screamed a bit at first while he cuddled her on his chest, but now goes to sleep with him fairly happily. Dr Sears calls it 'fathering down'. Maybe E. could start doing something similar, at least you'll know she isn't alone and crying, but it gives you a break and will hopefully make the boob/sleep connection a bit less strong for her.

I've stopped expecting improvements. We have some okay nights, which I'm grateful for, and some horror nights, when I get to obsess about how tired I'm going to be when I start back at work in two weeks. At least it's only part time.

I know she'll sleep through eventually, but I'm resigned to it not being before she's two. Sucks, but I'm not willing to take any more drastic steps, so what can you do?

Dear little Botany just loves her Mama! If only they'd express their love through the gift of sleep.

[Danielle]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to read all of the other very helpful comments. In the interest of time and brevity (and because this really might not help you so much), I guess all I can say is to go with what feels right. I have never been able to let either baby cry for any extended period of time. And I don't feel guilty. But, if I had let them cry, I would (hopefully) still not feel guilty. A problem I find will all the "sleep solutions" out there is that they simply may not work for you and your child, and so in your sleep-deprived state you feel miserable and like a total failure. Or maybe that was just me with my first baby.

Regardless of what you do find that works, this phase of nursing every two hours should pass. When stuck in a similar position, I have stocked up on good books, enjoyed nursing laying down, and continued with the co-sleeping. Or added a feeding of "solids." Your solution may vary, and I'll admit that at times mine included working myself up into a fit because I spent my days either working or lying down, with very few variations on that theme.

Right now my youngest (8 months) is practicing her flip-and-sit-up move at 1 am and 3 am and 5 am and 5:15 am and 5:30 am ... you see where I'm going here.

So my thoughts are with you and Botany. For what it's worth, I found Alethea Solter's book on tears and tantrums to be incredibly helpful. More so than any book specifically written about sleeping.

-Danielle