Weeping and gnashing

As I dropped Botany off at nursery yesterday, she looked up at me and smiled angelically.  “I will be a good girl today Mummy,” she said. Then, in a stage whisper she added “No biting!”

Encouraging as this was, it only heightened my dismay later in the day when I collected and was informed by Miss P, a temporary nursery staff member, that there had been two “incidents” that day. Oh, Botany, I groaned, not more biting! No, no, Miss P. hastened to correct me- this time, she had been scratching the other children.

“She was given two time outs,” Miss P. said, in a tone which implied that this was a very special and rare punishment.

 Botany twirled up to me and grabbed my legs. Botany, I reproached her, you know it’s wrong to hurt other children. She applied her “pretending to be listening face”. I knelt down and said it again at close range, whereupon she at least appeared somewhat embarrassed.

“Maybe you should speak to her key worker,” Miss P said, “just so you can ensure you are consistent with what you're doing at home.” I’m perhaps reading between the lines but just based on tone again, I got the impression she was suggesting that what we were doing at home was permitting Botany to sink her fangs into our necks and drink our blood.  

 I tried to explain that Knox and I pretty much run a zero-tolerance household and that Botany is pulled up on any bad behaviour immediately, including failing to comply with an adult instruction  of any type. 

“Oh, so does she stay in time out until her time is up?” Miss P asked.

Ack. How long have you got for a discussion on this, Miss P, I thought. You see, after months of battles, we’ve arrived at a method which has been working really well. Instead of focusing so much on what had ultimately become a power struggle in getting Botany to stand in a particular spot for 3 minutes, what we do now is something called “stop, pause, redirect”. Essentially, if she disobeys or acts up, we immediately stop whatever she’s doing, pause by putting her somewhere neutral to give her a chance to pull herself together and then move on, refocusing her toward something we do want her to do. There’s no time limit on it on the “pause” element. Sometime she wigs out for 10 minutes, sometimes it takes 30 seconds. It takes as long as it takes. But it’s about teaching her to get herself under control as well as stopping the bad behaviour.

What came out of my mouth instead was an inarticulate “Er, no, we don’t really do time outs that way at home,” as I watched Botany wander over to the reading corner to pick up her book.

Miss P. raised her eyebrows. “You know,” she said, “the other children don’t really want to play with her because she behaves like this. Does she have any friends outside of nursery? ”

“Um, yes,” I said. We have a little group of friends we see frequently on the one weekday she is not at nursery. In fact, Botany is actually quite well behaved then.   

“Maybe you could try getting a book which has a message in it,” she said, ominously emphasising the word message.   

“Er, we’ve done that, tried that, um, er…wait,” I muttered as I watched a little boy approach Botany and in an unilateral act of aggression, grab her book and push her over. She started to cry.  

I decided we’d both had enough for one day and I scooped up my weeping daughter and we left. I feel irritated and vaguely grubby about the whole thing. I don’t understand why Botany is acting so obnoxiously toward other children, but I’ve certainly witnessed plenty of such behaviour directed toward her over a number of occasions when picking her up.  I resent the implication (perceived or not) that I’m somehow responsible for her behaviour when she is there. I get the impression that she is less and less happy at this nursery- that something is not right, that she is falling through the cracks somewhere, that her evident frustration is not being directed properly. Or is it just her? Is she simply hard to handle? In contrast, she seems to love the new place around the corner, and if it wasn’t so hideously expensive to place her there four days a week, I think I would jump at the chance to move her.

What to do?

Comments

[a]

I would probably look for a different place anyway. If nothing else, I would at least have a discussion with the teacher/caregiver/director of the current place regarding the aggression towards Botany that you've seen, and regarding what's going on before the incidents. Who's watching the children? Shouldn't they be intervening before things escalate to violence? Most of the kids in our daycare (at Botany's age) will usually have some words before they get physical. I would also ask Botany what spurred the biting or scratching incidents, because maybe she's just defending herself? I'd be scratching and biting anyone who pushed me over and took my book.

[Sara]

Is Botany physically smaller than the other children at the nursery? I remember that when I was little, I was a biter and a scratcher, and was always caught because biting and scratching leaves marks. Hitting, pushing, and twisting the arm, head, or whatever body part does not leave immediately visible marks. Therefore, my older, larger, and much more physically powerful sister, who almost invariably provoked the biting, scratching, etc., through her own acts of aggression toward me, was very rarely caught starting it, even though she almost invariably did. I'd try to investigate a little further.

[VHMPrincess]

I think you should look for someplace new...they should be WANTING to work with you, not questioning YOUR behavior!

[Anita]

Good daycares don't do time out. what you're doing is the much better behavioral method. Options to change where you are going?

[Anita]

PS: I'm not a developmental psychologist, but I am a psychology professor nonetheless with a vested interest in parenting. Look elsewhere than where David Copperfield is also a student. ;-)

[Dead Bug]

Have you had an opportunity for Botany to socialize with any of the other kids in a different setting--a birthday party or park outing? Are there any girls or boys that she particularly likes? Josh was quite unhappy with preschool until he finally hit it off with another kid who treats him nicely, instead of ordering (or pushing) him around. (He's one of the littler kids there.)

Asking for the preschool teachers to do something differently, look out specially for your kid, is such a tough one. It's so hard not to come off as the "special snowflake" mom (we dealt with this when Josh had a major potty training regression after starting school and needed them to actively help), but, you know, you're paying them; they're not taking care of your kid as a favor. They should be professional and fair in their treatment of all the kids in their care.

[Anna]

I would be very wary of any daycare centre which used time out as a behaviour management strategy. It is just not appropriate as it really doesn't work, except, in some cases, to stop the immediate behaviour. Totally pointless to put a child in time out as punishment for aggression or any other negative behaviour. It just leads to further issues as the child resists the punishment, which is obviously what Botany is doing.

In Australia, early childhood centres are not permitted to use time out. It is considered to be psychologically abusive as it is a form of exclusion. Instead we use redirection, distraction, 'time-ins' where the child stays with an adult until he/she is ready to rejoin the children and natural/logical consequences; so if a child hurts another child, they are involved in helping that child to feel better by getting a tissue/cold pack or whatever.

Oh, should have said; I'm a Montessori early childhood teacher.

[Hairy Farmer Family]

I have a sinking feeling that there's a really important book out there that I haven't read. We DO use time outs, mainly because at the point of intervention, Harry's behaviour is so intensely bloody annoying that neither of us actually wants to interact with him for a minute or so until we are a little calmer ourselves. Where can I find these other magic strategies, ladies?

[Alexicographer]

@Hairy Farmer Family the two books I see referenced constantly in US parenting circles are the Love & Logic series and 1-2-3 Magic. I haven't read either so can't comment on them directly, but lots of folks swear by them. I personally am something of a fan of "Have a New Kid by Friday," though I can't say it's solved all our problems.

Mare -- no particular insights, just good wishes for a solution that works for you and for Botany.

[Anne]

Mare--

I actually am a clinical child and family psychologist, and if it helps any, we do exactly what you do at home, although we do, actually, call it "Time Out." Basically, we tell my daughter (who's almost 4) that her current behavior is not acceptable, and she will need to sit down until she is calm and able to participate in whatever it is we are supposed to be doing. Like you, sometimes we've found that it takes her five minutes, and sometimes it takes her two seconds (especially if we are currently doing something like eating dessert). This way, Time Out is not a punishment, but a way to help her calm her limbic system down and get her pre-frontal cortex back on line. And, she is in total control of how long she feels she needs to stay there.

I don't believe in external punishments (that are not connected to what the person does). "Discipline" is so often confused with "punishment," but really, if you are good disciplinarian, there shouldn't be a need for punishment 99% of the time.

I'm sorry Botany is having such a hard time at her school. Have you tried a positive reinforcement system (aka sticker chart?) E.g., if Botany can go all day without being physically aggressive toward other kids, she gets to put a sticker on a chart, and at the end of a pre-specified period (like, getting four stickers), she gets a reward. For my kid, it's ice cream, but every kid will be motivated by different things.

Can you also try talking to the day care director? They usually have more experience than some of the teachers, and maybe they can help smooth Miss P's ruffled feathers.

P.S. Miss P could use a few lessons on how to approach parents without coming off as a jerk. Sheesh!

[laura]

Well, Miss P sounds as if she is a lousy communicator with parents. Blaming the mom is a sure recipe for NOT solving the problem at hand.

If they're not ensuring that Botany herself is not bullied - and perhaps they are not - it's no wonder she's gotten bitier at school.

I might start casting around for a better, more involved, perhaps smaller preschool. One with staff that really watches interactions and helps to solve problems, rather than expecting parents' at-home discipline to magically apply to the schoolroom setting. That's not realistic for children this small.

How much more does the lovely school round the corner cost?

[Shanna]

Hopefully you don't have a situation like I experienced when my son was that age. The daycare provider got a bug up her butt either against me or my son so he was basically targeted as always being bad. Yet I would see other kids doing the same things that I was told Alex did and was getting punished for but that was ok. Or he would get shoved or bitten and nothing was done about it but if he stood up for himself then he was to blame. I was fortunate to be able to pull him from that place and get a much better in home babysitter who loved him like her own. It just sucks having to leave these kids we agonized over getting in the hands of people who don't love them the same as us. ;) good luck. I hope that you have some other options available and can get her into a better situation soon.

[Stephanie]

Well, if it's at all affordable, I would pull her- especially if it seems the other kids are aggressive towards Botany when you pick her up, and the staff aren't doing anything about it. If that's a challenge financially, maybe taking to the director/manager and relating what you're seeing, and bringing it to the staff's attention while you're there picking her up?